Laurie Moody is familiar with both the exact situation that sparked the 20/20 story and with the laws and issues related to juveniles. Her own work with DCYS and her husband’s current employment as a principal in the only prison in the state that houses juveniles tried as adults makes her statement more credible. I also appreciate the level-headed, charitable, and painfully transparent nature of the statement. Clearly, this is written to help clarify.
Laurie’s Observation:
I have some insight on the situation from my own time at Trinity Baptist Church and also my involvement with Tina and Tom and their mother, Chris. I first met Tina and Tom while on a visit to Glendale AZ where my dad was stationed at Luke AFB. My family attended the same IFB church as Chris and the two children. My mom was a teacher at the Christian School and had both of the children at one time or another. The name of the church has changed since then in the aftermath of the pastor’s (James Colyn) conviction for child sexual assault. He is a registered sex offender in TN the last time I checked.
My mom knew Chris and spent more time with her than I did. I was a college student at BJU at the time and only home for Christmas and other breaks. Chris was married to Daniel Leaf–not the father of the two children. During the time that they were in AZ, Dan was arrested and convicted for child abuse. You can find his criminal record here: http://www4.egov.nh.gov/nsor/Display.aspx?offenderID=2522
I became reacquainted with Chris while Daniel was in prison in AZ. She moved with Tina and Tom to NH to be near her family. By this time I was married and attending Trinity Baptist Church. I helped Chris a lot during the time Dan was imprisoned. I helped her clean her apartment, wash laundry, and also babysat the children for free. I first offered to take care of them when I observed their current babysitter (someone who lived near me) was using physical correction of them that I thought was harsh and inappropriate. I told Chris about the situation and offered to help. Knowing what I did from my own interaction with Chris and Daniel in AZ and my mom’s observations, Tina and Tom needed someone to provide security and love for them.
When Daniel was nearing the time to be released from prison, I spent quite a bit of time helping Chris get her apartment in order. I had several lengthy conversations with her about Daniel coming back and whether or not he could be trusted alone with the children. I wanted her to have a safety plan and asked her to promise me that she would not allow him to injure them again. Obviously I did not have the power to enforce such a decision, but Chris knew that I was volunteering with DCYS in a parenting/mentoring program and that I was a mandatory reporter if I ever observed any signs of abuse.
(I’m giving this detail for full disclosure lest someone from Trinity Concord give it in an effort to discredit me) In the summer of 1991, while I was in Maine visiting a friend, I went to a movie with her and another friend and also had a wine cooler. I knew that was in violation of my terms of employment as a part time teacher at Trinity Christian School, but made the choice to participate anyway. The pastor in Maine at the time, Dave Pennington, found out and told me he would tell Chuck Phelps if I did not. So, upon my return to Concord, I told Chuck and he accepted my resignation from the school. I remained active at the church and spent a short time in counseling with Linda Phelps and my husband remained on staff at the Christian school.
It was after this point that I saw Tina and Tom less often since I wasn’t employed at the school anymore, but I did see them at church, and continued my friendship with Chris. As best as I could tell when I saw them, I did not see bruises, but I always saw them fully clothed. Chris would not answer my specific questions about whether or not Daniel ever hit Tina and Tom, but would just tell me everything was okay. I made a good faith effort to keep an eye on their welfare.
In the summer of 1993, my husband and I moved to another state for him to begin work on his doctorate. Just before that move, Daniel was arrested and convicted of a felonious sexual assault of a young girl (6 years old if memory serves me correctly) at a McDonald’s restaurant. As you can see from his sexual offender record linked above, he has several other convictions. At one point Daniel was also investigated by DCYS for child abuse because of extensive bruising. The children their injuries were from a belt with metal eyelets/rivets in it.
Fast forward to the fall of 1997. A friend at Trinity with whom I remained in contact, called to tell me that Tina had been brought before the church for discipline (there were several calls over a span of a few days–the first one came the Sunday night of the church discipline). I use the words church discipline because they are the words my friend used, and the scenario was familiar to me because of similar sessions I had witness while at Trinity.
This friend’s sister was a neighbor to Chris and Tina and Tina had told that neighbor that Ernie Willis had raped her. It wasn’t until after the church discipline that my friend realized the church was going to take an action with which she disagreed (sending Tina away and keeping Willis in apparent good standing). Because of my earlier connection with Chris, Tina and Tom, I wanted to make contact with the family and offer to help rather than Tina being sent away to the home of strangers. My friend could not get anyone to tell her where Tina was taken and I was never able to establish contact with Tina until years later after the police located her.
I’ve read numerous comments from people that are using Chris as a bolster for Chuck Phelps’ testimony. I am sad to point out the obvious since her children still love her, but Chris has on multiple occasions brought a convicted abuser of her own children (not Daniel’s–he was the stepfather) back into her home. In addition to that, she knowingly brought a convicted child sexual offender back into her home and allowed him to be in unsupervised contact with her children. That is not the decision of a loving, godly woman. Chris selfishly chose her own satisfaction over her own children’s welfare. How does that make her a reliable witness in this situation?
Tina and Tom both thrived on the attention they received in our home. They clearly showed signs of a need for positive attention, affection and a father figure. I mentioned that I washed laundry often. I offered to do that because the children’s clothing often smelled. It pains me to have to speak in this way, but in spite of my own failing the summer of 1991 that caused me to resign from teaching at the school, I had always been a member in good standing at Trinity. I loved Tina and Tom. I kept the dress code Trinity required, followed the music guidelines established in Kurt Woetzel’s class, sang in the choir, helped in a myriad of ministries. I was the model Christian School teacher’s wife.
I’m not perfect by any means, but Chris abdicated her own responsibility as a mother to provide a safe environment for her children. She expressed to me on more than one occasion that she wanted Daniel back because she “needed” him and for other reasons that do not seem appropriate for me to repeat. But clearly–by the simple fact she kept bringing him back into her home, she was not putting the needs of her children first.
By Tina’s own testimony, Ernie Willis had become a confidante of sorts –someone she trusted and confided in about the abuse she endured at the hands of her stepfather. I saw Tina several times upon our return trips to NH to visit with my husband’s family. She was a sweet, kind girl–thoughtful, quick to give me a hug when she saw me, excited to see our new baby the year he was born. She wasn’t a seductive temptress. She wore the standard modest jumpers, and really, seemed like a late “bloomer” in my opinion.
By her own account, Ernie forced himself when she said no. That is rape. Before I saw the 20/20 show, I had a conversation with a woman with whom I am very close. She said to me of her own abuse, “I just wanted to forget it. I mean–surely it didn’t really happen? Maybe I imagined it.” Those are very similar words to the ones Tina used in recounting her own experience.
It was not Chuck Phelps’s role to investigate and figure out whether or not Tina was telling the truth. Why did he allow Ernie to confess to adultery in front of the church? Phelps has not disputed that fact. The church members on the 20/20 show all agree what his “charge” was. If Phelps really believed and reported it as rape, then why did he not take Ernie to the police station? Those of you that are fathers and pastors–would you have such a man sitting in your congregation around other young girls? Would you allow two phone calls to be enough action on your part?
I cannot help but ask those questions. It seems reasonable to conclude that at that time, Chuck believed what he is saying now–that the sex was consensual and not rape. Again–it was not his role to decide that back in 1997, but his action allowing Ernie to remain in the church, knowing he was not arrested, certainly seems like he was all too willing to assign guilt to Tina.
I’m writing about what I know from my own relationship with Chris, Tina and Tom because the things I am saying are just not out there anywhere I can see — at least where pastors and fundamentalists are reading. This for me and my husband goes well beyond “taking sides” to confessing sin. I failed by not creating a big stink over this after I got a call from my friend telling me Tina was sent away. I should have called the police myself. My answer at the time to my husband was “what can I do?” I was an adult, and I should have tried harder.
I am not in a fundamentalist church today, because the continual stress of external “standards” and a rules based church instead of a church where the gospel message –freedom in Christ was preached–finally led my husband and I to make a change. My own family has been touched by sexual assault and child abuse in every single fundamentalist church we attended. Sadly, it was covered up at each one. In spite of that, and all of my siblings and I treasure a deep and abiding relationship with God today. We’ve all taken different journeys in our own healing, but we are whole and happy in our families, all serving God in different ways.
I guess that last paragraph was for full disclosure too. I’m not holding anything back. I may not meet your standards for a “good witness.” I am just appealing to you all to please think about whether or not Tina may read what you say. David Doran, you may not remember me from all those years ago at BJU, but I want to thank you for interjecting what feels like a voice of reason over at Sharper Iron. I have been truly grieved by what I’ve read there. I just can’t help but think that if it had been a different girl–the daughter of a leader in the fundamentalist movement–that maybe this would be treated differently. But you know–if that were the case, she would not have been a perfect victim to be groomed by a pedophile for rape. If the church in question were anything other than a big church in the movement (I was there–I know how much of a leader Trinity is in New England with the Leadership Conference and other things like the NEACS), say–someone other than Chuck Phelps–would this be handled differently?
God will get the honor and glory due to His name because He is God. He doesn’t need ABC to promote Him and His purposes cannot be thwarted by ABC. The power of the Gospel message cannot be hindered by the sin of men. If that were the case, the Gospel would have perished long ago. He uses imperfect people all the time to accomplish His plans. As believers though, we can choose to allow this 20/20 episode to push us to embrace truth. It can push us to confess, repent, and restore while making restitution. If Chuck says in his statement, that he wouldn’t have a young girl come before the body like that now, then why not simply apologize?
I think we all have to accept responsibility in these matters so such a thing never happens again. Fortunately, and for our own comfort, Tina says now, “We made it through and God is good.” Doesn’t it say something that ABC ended the broadcast with that statement?
Like this:
Filed under: ABC 20/20, Fundamentalism
Thank you for your transparency Laurie..
Thank you Laurie.
Thank you.
“It was not Chuck Phelps’s role to investigate and figure out whether or not Tina was telling the truth. Why did he allow Ernie to confess to adultery in front of the church? Phelps has not disputed that fact. The church members on the 20/20 show all agree what his “charge” was. If Phelps really believed and reported it as rape, then why did he not take Ernie to the police station? “I don’t agree with what Phelps did, especially bringing Tina before the church. But I can see why he faced difficulty. Tina was 16, she did continue to seek Ernie Willis’ company (even contacting him from CO) and vehemently objected to reporting what happened to the police. The law does make a difference between rape and statutory rape for a reason. When you take into consideration Tina’s own actions as a 16 year old, you can perhaps see why Phelps was conflicted.All that having been said, he did report the crime to the police and to DCYS.
Did he report it? Never in writing, unless you think the police destroyed evidence. And, is a phone call enough to “file a report”? I thought it had to be in writing.
By all accounts, both Phelps and Mrs. Leaf reported what they knew to police. Phelps made two phone calls to police and one to DYCS. DYCS faxed him a specific form to use. Phelps also contacted the lawyer for the church to make sure he had met all the requirements. So he has a paper trail to prove his side.
My advise to the anti-IFB and “all IFB’s are guilty” camp is to stop trying to change the story in midstream.
You’d like to accuse the man of not reporting it but he obviously did.
Accuse him of what he did do, and that was bring Tina in front of the church and shame her. And I don’t care how he is trying to explain it away now, that is what the result of his actions were. And he let Willis off easy by allowing him to admit to adultery instead of statutory rape.
Ken,
I don’t mean to be contentious, but I’ve looked through all the public records and cannot find anything to substantiate your claim that Tina “continue[d] to seek Ernie Willis’ company (even contacting him from CO).”
You are introducing something completely new here. There are only a few ways you could be doing that. I know you did not talk to Tina because I contacted her today and asked if she knew you and if your claim was true. Tina flatly denies your allegation. She was with someone at all times, and the few phone calls she was permitted to make she was required to have an adult in the room with her the entire time. So since your information doesn’t come from Tina, what is your source? Where you there first hand to witness this? For this to be anything other than second hand information, you’d have to have either phone records or been in the room with Tina or Willis. If you are repeating hearsay second or third hand, that isn’t a reliable source.
Why do you keep with the insistence of misrepresenting Tina’s age? Her birth certificate is a matter of public record. She was 15 when she had a 38 year old man raped her by her own account.
Do you know Chuck Phelps first hand? Do you know Tina first hand? If so, how well do you know them? Have you worked with them and/or spent extensive time with them along the path of daily life (not in a classroom). I know them both. I’d like to know with what claim you make such authoritative statements.
Thank you.
Laurie
Laurie,
As I watched the 20/20 installment, Tina makes the statement in the footage that she sought out Ernie when she discovered she was pregnant (and he subsequently offers to punch her in the stomach and abort the baby). As horrible and murderous as that suggestion of Ernie’s was, it struck me when I watched it that it seems to me to be consistent with the idea that Tina was a willful participant rather than a girl taken by violent force. Understanding that the bulk of the responsibility falls on the adult here (and there is no doubt in my mind that Willis ought to do hard time), it isn’t clear to me why she would have chosen to confide in him if he indeed had been forcefully violent with her. If you would comment on that and help me see how I might be looking at this wrong (if I am), I’d be appreciative.
Greg, I don’t mind answering at all. I have always hoped God would allow the pain my own family suffered because of abuse at the hands of a trusted church member (and everything I have learned in its aftermath) to be something that could help others understand how important abuse prevention and support for the victim is.
Tina was very frightened when she realized she was pregnant. She had already felt a lack of support from her mom and Pastor Phelps. As you may remember from one of the news stories with a full timeline, before the rape incidents with Ernie, Tina had confided in the wife of a youth staff member at Trinity about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her stepfather Daniel Leaf. She felt safe to tell of his abuse because Daniel was currently serving jail time on an unrelated sexual assault against another young girl. The youth staff member didn’t know how to handle the issue and took it to Pastor Phelps. According to Tina’s account, she was advised not to press charges at the time because Daniel was already in jail being punished.
I have already addressed the claim of Tina’s mom that she was not taken to the prison to confront and forgive Daniel.
Given her choices at the time, Tina did not know what to do or who to tell. She did confide in a neighbor–the sister of my friend that called to tell me of the church discipline (as I related above). But Tina also told Ernie. I don’t know if you have done any reading at all on how children (including adolescents) and even battered adult women respond to abuse over and over again. It is not uncommon at all for an abused person to turn to their abuser for help. By her own account, Tina was afraid because she knew she would be blamed. She did not think she would be believed (and that does appear to have been what happened).
The secondary physical abuse investigation I mentioned above happened when Tom and Tina reported Daniel hitting Tom so many times they lost count. She was scared and hiding in a closet at the time. Fear like that over and over again, changes a child’s ability to figure out who is safe and who can help. I can’t even myself use words to describe how my own mind used to respond to that kind of terror so many years ago.
If you do some reading–you can google good information quite easily–why children and adults take a long time to come forward about abuse, why they sometimes seem to be protecting their abuser, why children who have been abused may seem to be meek followers or even try to be heard. It is a really complicated dynamic and the outcome is impacted by how long the abuse has occurred, how many adults have been involved and whether or not the child’s attempts at getting help were realized. What little knowledge I have comes from a combination of reading, Christian counseling and listening to many that experienced what I did.
I don’t know if my answer helps you understand at all. I do know that from the first time I understood the timing of the events that it never occurred to me to doubt the part of the story you have questioned. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon in instances such as this. As terrible as it sounds, Tina learned early on that she could say no or even fight an abuser, but soon enough the abuser had his way and she learned to cope by not thinking about what was happening at the time. How heartbreaking. This is not what people who unselfishly love their children want for them.
I would like to add just one more thing. From my volunteer work as a parenting mentor (goal to prevent abuse in high risk families) and my teaching opportunities in women’s ministries, I have really developed a passion for awareness and prevention of any kind of child abuse or any kind of domestic abuse. It is a power or control dynamic. It’s never about sex for the perpetrator. It’s distressing to see the long-term effects of repeated abuse and violation of trust from the people that should be most trustworthy–especially in this case Tina’s mom and leaders at the church. In this case, though–consider the outcome! Tina’s quote that closed the 20/20 broadcast, “We made it through and God is good.”
Assigning blame to the victim of a crime doesn’t help that victim heal–to become a survivor. Why, after all this time, even though she was serving in a church like the one in which she was raised, even though she has a loving husband and children with him–why would she make stuff up and subject herself to once again being blamed and doubted? It was after the police located her and her own husband urged her to do the right thing–to tell the truth and thereby hopefully protect any other victims of Ernie Willis (a still unanswered question is, are there other victims–FBI statistics are very clear on multiple abuses and high likely multiple victims are).
That may be more than you were looking for, Greg. I just want to do the best I can to communicate in a way that is meaningful and understandable to you, the damage that has and can be done, and how much of an opportunity the church has to minister to the hurting in situations like this–including even the victims of the perpetrator’s family. One set of victims should not be preferentially treated above another. They all have real, urgent needs that must be met. But there is a much better way to do it than was done in 1997 at Trinity. It seems to me that an apology acknowledging that is very reasonable. It’s okay to admit that we can do better and then to go to people that have more experience and learn from them.
Thanks, Laurie. I am not doubting the story, per se, but getting confused on exactly what is being described sometimes. “Rape is rape,” I understand on one level- yet with what is being described, it sometimes seems as if EW is portrayed as a violent, threatening-with-physical-harm rapist (though I have not seen anything that says that directly). If even an intimate nature of the relationship (short of sexual consummation, say, frequent times where they would be alone and developing that intimacy) was present… well, I don’t think it makes EW any less guilty, nor does it mean that TBC and Pastor Phelps didn’t mishandle the matter- but it does help me better understand how things got to where they did- and that a teenage girl made sinful choices that contributed to the situation.
It seems to me that in our effort to hold the adult men in this scenario accountable (which most definitely needs to be done), there is an assumption that the minor female in the scenario is a completely innocent victim. I understand she was badly mistreated, and I have sympathy for her. She is still accountable before God, however, for her choices and responses. An appeal to her past abuse and being sinned against would not today justify an adulterous affair apart from her husband. If we discovered EW had been molested as a child himself, would that make him any less guilty? It was wrong for TA to have been mistreated and abused by her stepfather. If she pursued an intimate relationship with a married man (even if she was only 15), that was also wrong- not as worthy of serious punishment as the behavior of EW, but still wrong.
Laurie – thank you, thank you, thank you for speaking out about this, and especially for your attempt to patiently help people understand the complexity of abuse, and the role that power and fear play in shaping victims’ responses to their circumstances. As my wife and I have worked through her own recovery from sexual abuse, and as I’ve followed this present controversy, the most glaring problem I’ve seen – apart from the abuse, obviously – is many people’s complete ignorance of the nature of abuse. So again, thank you for your efforts to educate.
Greg,
Tina didn’t make sinful choices that contributed to anything. The only thing that she desired in her relationship with Ernie and Tammie is the same thing that she wanted (and should have in any relationship with responsible Christian adults) from my husband and I–love, security, safety, and a refuge from her incredibly difficult home life.
Ernie violated the trust she placed in him. Just like James Colyn (http://www.tbi.tn.gov/sorint/sordetailart.aspx?htid=SO006012) from her old church in AZ did when a young girl from the church’s Christian school came and asked for help because her stepfather was sexually abusing her. Just like youth Pastor Ed Greene at Marquette Manor did (http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/downersgrove/news/x1319859352) to a young girl coming forward from the Christian school there. Tina had every right to trust Ernie Willis to do the correct, manly and godly thing. Instead, he raped her.
Greg, I’m really perplexed at why you asked the question the way you did. Maybe it is just that you trust Chuck Phelps’ opinion for some reason? He doesn’t have any first hand evidence of his assertion–it is just his opinion. He is choosing to believe something or someone — Ernie maybe? Maybe I’m wrong and you’ve met Tina and spent time with her and there’s something you know from that? I haven’t asked her if she knows you.
If not, your question based on an opinion someone else has drawn from whatever second or third hand opinion wouldn’t be a whole lot different from me telling someone — well I know someone that listened to a sermon from Greg and they really aren’t sure if they can accept his guidance on parenting matters because it came across like his parenting methods are harsh and possibly abusive.
Wondering to yourself–or even privately asking questions from someone with experience dealing with victims of very traumatic abuse, or better yet, contacting the victim or those that know him/her personally–that seems reasonable to me. It is a way to learn and potentially decide where you’ll place support if you’re in a position to do it.
But wondering “out loud” in a public venue if a minor somehow sinned and brought about her own rape or other kind of relationship clearly unequal in power — a 15 year old girl with a 38 year old man — well, that just seems irresponsible to me. Why? You are questioning the possibility of things–perhaps insinuating something for which there is no first hand evidence because it is simply not true, and running the risk of violating the victim all over again. What you are doing is why so many abuse victims don’t come forward. What is worse–experiencing the abuse in silence with no parental support or intervention for years and years, stuffing the memories to try to forget OR trying to bring accountability and being humiliated, disbelieved, losing a job and friends, and reliving it all again? Ask yourself–would you want your wife or child to experience that? Frankly, I don’t know if I would have the courage to do it, and I’m supporting someone in my own family that has never spoken publicly either.
That’s why I applaud Tina’s courage. The bravery to put the protection of other potential victims ahead of her own comfort and ease. Wow.
I can’t give you a clearer answer. I hope this helps.
Ken:
I’m sorry, but to me his actions show quite clearly he has no experience dealing with sexual abuse. Her actions aren’t that uncommon. There are plenty of state agencies or faith based agencies that would have helped him. When you are in over your head? You get help. You have to wonder why he didn’t. It’s not like this was the first time his church ran within sexual assault.
The fact he stated that she also was scared to stay alone, and he had to have people watch her afterwards? What he had was a very confused girl, and he needed to follow up with law enforcement. You let the chips fall where they may at that point. Following up would be a moral obligation.
You have to wonder what was going through Tina’s head as well. I mean her pastor claims he told the police it was rape, and yet tells everyone else it was a ‘covert dating relationship that was sexual in nature’. A nice way of saying affair.
So in other words her pastor covered his butt legally by telling the police rape, but on the surface didn’t believe her. I’m sure that didn’t do much for her sense of security during this traumatic time in her life.
I can see why Tina would be conflicted.
Laurie,
Thank you for posting this. It is much needed.
I hit enter too soon. I also remember reading your story on the net before. I was so outraged by how you and your husband were treated. Obviously, I am more outraged how Tina and others were treated, but still. ugh. These stories are heard over and over again and we pastors (me included) need to change the culture.
These facts are important to get out. I too commend Dave Doran for his comments. He did so much better than I did, even though I have always agreed with his sentiments.
Thank you very much for posting this here.
Well, I must say that I did make a choice I knew was not acceptable, and I make no excuses for it. If I recall correctly, there were only a couple of times I was shocked at being rebuked by Chuck. Once when reprimanded for missing too many church services when our first child was very sickly, and the time he reprimanded my husband for allowing me to drive the car when he was in it. That is definitely an experience that has never been repeated even in another church where we served on staff after my husband was done with his Doctoral work. At the time it was demoralizing and I felt shamed, but now–looking back it is pretty funny–not just because Phelps rebuked us for it, but because we just complied like it was a normal demand/expectation.
I read that when you posted it on the FB page. I am glad you stood up to that nonsense. I had a similar circumstance happen not long after college.
I remember laughing out loud when I read your story about your husband getting chided for you driving. So much for soul liberty?? That was not his business. And for the record….THAT IS CULTIC. Ok no more shouting from me…lol
I wonder why the police are saying that he didn’t report it. Wonder what happened to the fax. I reported child abuse once and was required to come down to the police station and give a sworn statement and sign the report. Fax wasn’t an option. And that was in the late 90s.
Now it is a fax? Who is it exactly that keeps changing the story in mid-stream?
Every situation I’ve been involved with with the police, or had someone I knew involved HAD to have a written report in person. Either a police officer would come to your home, crime scene, or could go to the station and fill out the forms there.
Lauire,
Thank you for your necessary post. I already believed Tina before now and I continue to do so. This sheds more light on the issue, as far as I am concerned.
I too appreciated Dave Doran’s post.He said what I tried to say but didnt do nearly as good of a job.
Bob,
Thanks for putting this on your blog
Really, won’t a single BJU affiliated pastor come out and say that Phelps mishandled Tina’s rape? Is it that hard to admit that Phelps is at the very least an absolute moron for how he paraded her in front of the church? Jesus even included a story in the Bible as to how to he dealt with the woman caught in adultery. He didn’t parade her in front of the disciples for rebuke. Shouldn’t an underage rape victim deserve better? If you are an IFB pastor defending Phelps, do Jesus a favor and get the hell out of his pulpit.
David,
I am a BJ grad. I have said it several times over at SI, but I will say it again here. How Chuck Phelps handled Tina’s rape was dreadful to say the least. In fact, I can’t think of any part that was handled well. I am embarrassed at how it was handled and I think the sinner/rapist was handled with kid gloves and the victim was treated as a criminal. Can I be any more clear?
David,
My impression was that Dave Doran is pretty affiliated. I’m a lifetime member of the Alumni Association, but not sure I count.
Shafffer, once again you have failed to check the facts before posting. Read the posts of Doran, Carlson, and others at SI (you’ll have to tolerate some atrocious nonsense from Phelps Phriends to do that, sadly).
“So now it’s a fax?”
Look, why attack me with sarcasm because Phelps has a paper trail indicating he alerted authorities?
As fas as I know, the report of the DYCS faxing him some forms has been in the written statements he provided to 20/20 (although they chose not to mention it) and were posted on his web site.
Does that mean he handled it all correctly? Absolutely not. It’s a shame he made Tina stand before the church.
I don’t know the guy and I don’t even care for the BJU crowd and the Wilds crowd. They aren’t my cup of tea. But to try and deny what he DID do just makes the case against him weaken.
I wasn’t using sarcasm. I simply asked a legit question. I thought we were two adults having dialogue.
I guess the burning question is, why didn’t Phelps connect the dots for his congregation when he brought both before the church for discipline? She was 15 – it is now a matter of rape. Even if she flaunted her self – still rape. He should have indicated that these two “incidents” were actually the same incident. This is called obstruction of justice. It would not have mattered if she had consented – his story doesn’t line up. The fact that he didn’t feel “led” to share this with his congregation is a big deal – it screams of cover up. Any thoughts?
am not involved in this situation in any way, but I thought I’d briefly state a possible reason that Phelps didn’t “connect the dots” without it being obstruction of justice or cover up.
First, a church meeting really has nothing to do with obstruction of justice. What Phelps announced to his church is basically irrelevant to the charge of obstruction of justice.
Second, it’s at least possible that Phelps didn’t state that it was rape or have Willis do so b/c of legal ramifications. (I’m not saying this means it was a right course of action, but that it’s a possible explanation). If Phelps thought Willis was going to be arrested, I would imagine Willis announcing to the church that he had raped someone would not have helped him in his criminal trial. Phelps stating that Willis committed rape could also have legal ramifications. After all, even 20/20 had to say “alleged” all the time for legal purposes.
Whether or not that was the right or wise move can be debated, but I don’t think calling it adultery instead of rape necessarily points to obstruction or a cover-up.
(FWIW, I heard someone who was there for the discipline say they made the connection and got the impression everyone else did too (since most people knew Tina babysat for Willis). Obviously not everyone made that connection, but some did).
Ben, in the context of church discipline, what would repentance look like for someone who is guilty of rape? Would confessing to an affair constitute genuine repentance?
I would think if someone raped someone else but wasn’t willing to confess that rape, then it would not be genuine repentance. But, I’m not sure they would need to confess that publicly as rape in the church, especially if they are about to head to trial and that confession could create greater legal difficulty for them they than is necessary. (They should have confessed it privately and dealt properly with the person they raped in order for it to be genuine repentance).
If he had said he had been unfaithful with Tina without stating that it was not consensual, then most people would have assumed Tina was at fault in some way (i.e., they would have assumed it was consensual). If he said it wasn’t consensual, then he could be creating legal troubles for himself. That’s why I said I’m not sure if it was the right or wise move to not make the connection, but it’s at least understandable and doesn’t mean there had to be a cover up.
Personally, I would think repentance would include being willing to face the consequences of your actions. I’m not a legal expert, but usually there are several charges filed against someone, some of which may fit and others may not. So, I’m not sure I could tell someone it’s wrong for them to not let the court throw the book at them. Thus, they need to be willing to be truthful and honest about what happened, but I don’t think that necessarily means they need to hang themselves legally either.
To throw a somewhat absurd scenario out, let’s suppose Barry Bonds was in your church (since he loves your preaching) and was charged with the four counts he just faced. If he was really guilty of all four counts, he should be up front and honest and admit that. But if he was only guilty of two or three of them, I wouldn’t think repentance would require pleading guilty to all four. And I’m not sure repentance would require legally implicating yourself in front of the church.
I really like the idea of repentance taking a form that will conveniently minimize legal consequences down the road. That sounds like a real change of heart.
I’m not sure how you got that out of my post (at least, that’s not at all what I was attempting to say). I’m saying that repentance doesn’t mean maximizing your legal consequences. (Of course, simplistic thinking could make it an either/or scenario: Either you throw the book at yourself and make sure you face the stiffest penalty possible under the law–even if that means you get convicted of crimes you didn’t actually commit–or you are wiggling around trying to find ways to minimize the consequences b/c you haven’t had a change of heart.)
But a more thoughtful approach would be to realize there are options in between those, including the one I presented: You are truthful and honest and admit to what actually happened, but you don’t have to do something that might make things worse for you than they need to be. (How does being careful make you not repentant?) After all, I don’t see David saying “I obviously haven’t repented of my sins because I haven’t accepted the law’s punishment for adultery with Bathsheba and murder of Uriah.”
And, since I realize I’m far from infallible in communicating my point, let me reiterate that I’m not saying that what happened is the right way to handle things. My point was that it doesn’t necessarily prove a cover up, nor does it necessarily mean a person is not repentant.
Where’s the paper trail Phelps keeps talking about? Produce them. Police reports are matters of public record..
Laurie, you have demonstrated compassion and far more patience than I could’ve mustered. Well done, and thank you for making the rest of the body of Christ look intelligent, reasonable and loving.
I’d like to add a comment here now that I’ve read Phelps’ newest document online. He provided a statement from Chris Leaf alleging that DCYS required Tina to visit her stepdad in the prison as a part of reunification. I’ve spoken with several social workers today, each of them having more than 20 years of experience. Even in the mid to late 90′s it was not standard operating procedure to require an adolescent female to visit a convicted child molester in a prison as a part of allowing the sex offender to come back into the home. Typically, forced visitation at a prison was only in the case of court ordered custody visits with a biological parent. Any plans for reunification would likely have included a social worker and it wouldn’t have been at the prison itself, but in some neutral location after Daniel’s release. It would be highly unusual for the situation Chris relates to be accurate. Chris’ concedes her claim results from her own memory as opposed to documentation, and it is understandable that a memory lapse could occur after so long. Without documentation, it seems reasonable to put her claim on hold next to Tina’s. Chris still has to face the fact that she has consistently put her own desires above her children’s safety by continuing to welcome a convicted child abuser and pedophile into her home allowing unsupervised access to children that did not biologically belong to Daniel Leaf. That erodes her reliability and integrity as a witness.
You are correct. And I did not know until you posted today that Leaf had already been convicted of molestation in AZ. The fact that she let him back into her home is unbelievable to me.
thank you, laurie. this was a needful perspective. (and it puts forth an excellent case, by the way, for encouraging gospel-loving christians to pursue becoming CASAs/guardians ad litem for abuse/neglect court-involved children in their communities–and/or for christian families to pursue involvement with Safe Families programs in their areas, to provide support and respite and preventive care for struggling households BEFORE they get to the falling-apart/needing-state-intervention stage! wouldn’t THAT be wonderful?!)
One question I have for Elizabeth Vargas, the 20/20 reporter, why didn’t she interview current members of Trinity. I’ve read that the former members she interviewed that had left Trinity had some problems with their kids in the Christian school so they might be already biased against that church. Don’t know if that is true or not. Just saying it would’ve provided more of a balance to the report.
Also, I come from a family of IFB pastors. My Dad is a pastor & my three uncles are pastors. They all went to IFB colleges and seminaries. I’ve attended at length or been a member of at least 10 different IFB churches in several different states. I’ve also visited IFB churches in several more states all over the country. I went to four different IFB Christian schools and I graduated from two IFB colleges. In other words I’ve been involved “deeply” with the IFB for all my 40 years.
I can honestly say I have never, ever heard of or seen any kind of the sexual abuse portrayed on the 20/20 program. I’ve never ever heard so much as a whif of abuse never mind any kind of cover-up.
That is my personal experience. I have never, ever heard or seen any kind of sexual abuse.
Not saying that something never happened and I never knew it. But I honestly find it hard to believe that I wouldn’t have “smelt” something was going on – if you know what I mean.
At the same time I can’t deny other people’s experiences with abuse and I can’t deny that in some parts of the IFB an atmosphere may exist where abuse could (& sometimes does) happen.
Lastly, the term “abuse” is such a broad and often ambiguous term. It is also a word that can be all too often thrown out there by someone doesn’t like the rules at BJU or some other situation that a reasonable person would say that it was not abuse. What I am getting at is that just because someone cries “abuse” doesn’t mean it actually happened. Again, not denying real, actual abuse doesn’t happen within the IFB (& other church groups as well), just saying that just because someone says it doesn’t mean it really happened. It is also a word that once it gets thrown out at a person, the “alleged” criminal will likely be seen as guilty for years & years even if the accusation turns out to be false (something I have personally seen before). We just need to be careful when and how we use that term.
um… not to stir the pot, but one thing that I have heard only alluded to in discussions about this tragedy is the impact that sociological factors may have played in handling it.
Among the ifb groups that I have been a part of, there is a definite social strata in churches. It is often divided by economics and pedigree, and usually takes the form of successful middle-class types reaching out to lower-class (meant descriptively, not pejoratively), slightly dis-functional types. There are those who “minister” and those who are “ministered to.”
A by-product of this phenomena is that it sets up an elite, inner circle of church members who are somehow more significant, more important, more necessary than other members of the community. And it works fine, until someone on the inner circle stumbles into sin or someone on the outer circle claims to have been harmed by the inner circle.
(In handling dispute once, my pastor-husband had the insider say to him, “Why are you taking her side? She doesn’t even come to church as much as I do!” )
Please understand my intentions. This is only something I’ve observed privately and I’m wondering if in Laurie’s opinion, she observed these dynamics at play as well. Also, wondering if these sociological factors would have subtly influenced how the claim of rape was assessed? Was there a bias already in place because of TIna’s background and family situation?
Not trying to stir more controversy or say impolite things about Tina who from all accounts is a very well-adjusted survivor. Maybe, it’s just my attempt to address the elephant in the room.
Hannah, I agree with what you say about there often being an inner circle of elite members that does the ministering and everyone else gets ministered to. There are the elite ministors and then there are the ministerees.
Personally, that bothers me. I don’t like it! I have been challenging a friend of mine who is a leadership position within the IFB movement along the very same lines. However, my thoughts are much more clumsy. What you said was well put.
I thought it interesting that Mr. Willis was reported to be a wealthy businessman and Laurie mentions that Tina’s clothes were often in need of washing. I think you make a valid observation that many of us know and few want to admit.
Hannah,
I think that you are on to something. I grew up as a “bus kid.” It took me a long time to break through that barrier and cross over. As a pastor, I have tried to keep a close guard against happening. I also saw situations like what we are talking about handled. When I brought this up as a problem, the leadership looked at me like I was nuts, this is how it is, they would say.
It is an attitude all of us in the church has to challenge.
Greg, I may have lost track of some issues, but what point are you making by advancing the possibility that Tina may have been guilty in some fashion?
Well, personal application-wise, as a father with three daughters, I am certainly going to be even more mindful of relationships my daughters have with adult men. Also speaking as the father of three daughters, I understand that children can be naive, sheltered, follow poor models and mimic sinful behavior (as mine are prone to do)- but that they are also capable of sinful choices.
It seems to me that in the cry for justice (which I can heartily agree with), “we” are also (perhaps inadvertently) leaving the idea that the victim here was “innocent” and that consent plays no role at all in what happened. The perception that sinful choices on her part are more or less irrelevant may be more satisfying in our thirst for retribution, but don’t really help us if we are wanting to chart a course to protect children and avoid these things from happening in the future. A 15-year old these days (especially in light of events like this) ought to be spoken to rather frankly about developing intimacy. In church settings, I would speak rather frankly about some specific rules of thumb (such as not allowing sponsors to ride in cars or be in isolated places alone with individual students), but also would want to speak rather frankly about appropriate trust and intimacy issues (who you “give your heart” to, if you will). As much as the man is most deserving of the responsibility for this heinous crime legally and sinful behavior morally/spiritually, chastity and virtue in young women is about more than wearing skirts and avoiding mixed bathing. Standards are helpful (sometimes), but this reminds me that tragic situations like this don’t often happen between total strangers. Our conduct and familiarity with people of the opposite sex is something that children and adults who work with them ought to have instruction on, and have professional parameters established.
That’s helpful, Greg. I’m glad you’re not thinking of supposed sinful consent as an excuse for leadership failures. Also, I think we can make the case you made without creating a cloud of suspicion related to Tina.
Greg,
Yes, sadly, Tina’s mom did not protect her from those that would violate trust and human decency. I’m glad for your daughters that you have a high commitment to their safety. All children should have that. It is a wonderful privilege to love and care for the four sons God has given my husband and I (the oldest now married). We have incredibly tight rules about where our boys can go without either their father or I (or now their older brother and sister in law).
We have those rules because unfortunately, pedophile predators don’t just groom young girls. At times we’ve had to make choices about events that really disappointed our boys. We teach them why and we do our best to prepare them to make safe choices when they aren’t with us, and in the end realize that we are wholly dependent upon God’s grace and His protection of them.
What some meant as evil in my own family–and in Tina’s–God is using for good. I love the comfort I gain from the story of Joseph. But truth be told, I’d like to be the parent that doesn’t blindly trust thereby setting up my own child for abuse and injury.
cross posted here: http://bobbixby.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/is-the-victim-guilty/#comment-3928
As I am reviewing my comments, I can see how my “thinking out loud” might be leaving a distinctly negative impression. To the extent that I have left the impression at all that Tina Anderson is to blame for what Ernie Willis did to her, I was wrong, and I apologize. In my admitted tendency to be overly-analytical, I have demonstrated a lack of compassion and sensitivity for those who have been sinned against. While I still believe that prevention includes educating and preparing potential victims as well as policing potential perpetrators, I have gone about discussing this here in an inappropriate way. To those reading, I ask your forgiveness for my behavior.
Greg,
Thank you for posting that apology. I appreciate it. I think it helps the discussion.
Laurie
Laurie, thank you for posting your story, painful as it may have been for you. Thank you also for your clear and biblical thinking as you did so. Not having learned about this scandal until recently, this was the first time I heard the this much backstory on what happened.
I had not realized how negligent Tina’s family, and in particular her mother, were in this wretched situation. To be blunt, Chris invited monsters into her home and her judgment cannot be trusted. In one sense, she bears a heavy responsibility here. But her responsibility highlights, rather than diminishes, Chuck Phelps’s responsibility.
When parents are unable or unwilling to protect their own children from predators within the church, part of the a pastor’s role as a shepherd is to step up and provide that protection. That’s not what Chuck Phelps did.
[...] Bixby has posted a statement from Laura Moody, Formally from Trinity Baptist Church, about her relationship with those involved with the scandal [...]
[...] via A Former IFB Trinity Insider Comments « Pensees. [...]
Cross posted here: http://bobbixby.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/is-the-victim-guilty/#comment-3942
I thought some of you might be interested in reading this family update from Tim Anderson, Tina’s husband. He has given me permission to post it online.
Family Update
by Tim Anderson on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 at 8:14am
The past twelve months have been some of the most interesting in my life. My family and I have gone through quite a transformation. It’s been exciting, challenging, thought provoking and very interesting to say the least. I’m sure there are so many more words that could be used to describe the past year and all the events and changes that have gone on in my family’s lives.
More than a year ago, the abuse that my wife Tina went through years ago as a child was brought to light in the most round-about way and without any prompting on her part. In fact, if it had been up to her, it would have stayed a private matter. I knew about it within the first couple days of our first date. I’m sure that she expected me to run away scared of the scars in her life both physically and emotionally. We connected right away. In fact, we were engaged within three months and married within seven. As most know, we now have three beautiful children.
One of the biggest changes that we made a year ago was to change churches. We had decided that it was the best option for our family. This was not an easy decision and we didn’t make it foolishly or in haste. A lot of prayer went into our decision and there were many reasons for our decision. I was about to go into those reasons but that is not the purpose of this letter. I know there are a lot of speculations and rumors about us and the reasons we left. I’m sure none of them are correct because we’ve never explained fully “why” we left. I don’t know what rumors are flying around and it does not matter. We have to answer to God for our decision, not man.
We never stopped going to church. We just found a new one. We spent the summer visiting various churches. I’d say that I attended at least ten different churches in the area. It was great to see the variety of churches and the love that these believers had for God. I even took my family to an all black church in the area. We were the only white people in the crowd. They were friendly and invited us back again and I wanted to but we never made it there again.
We finally walked into a church that just felt like home. They preach God’s Word and the messages spoke to our hearts and were exactly what we needed. The service is just so uplifting and edifying of God and it’s just an excitement to go there every Sunday. It is so great to walk through church and people being excited to see you, give you a hug, and a genuinely happy with life and serving God.
They have stretched out their arms and have loved us. They didn’t know our story and it was nice to be able to sit in the audience and not worry about what the latest news article, website, or blog had to say about Tina. We have been very blessed to find a new church home. As time has gone by, we’ve shared our story. Usually, when we’re done they stop and ask if they could pray for us.
God has multiplied our friends. We made a few friends during the four and a half years that we were at our previous church but even in just the first four months at our new church we developed more friends and a deeper relationship with many of them than we had been able to with others in the past. On numerous occasions we have had people from our new church call us up and say they were thinking of us and felt that we needed prayer. Just the other day, a woman called Tina and when Tina didn’t answer, she just prayed for us and we heard it when she listened to her voicemail. It was very sweet and thoughtful.
We’ve been able to get involved in women’s Bible studies, men’s Bible studies, community outreach services, children’s programs, nursery, just to name a few. The church is involved in so many things that it’s hard not to get involved in something. The church focuses on reaching the needs of people and getting people involved in meeting those needs.
Another big change that happened was putting our children into a charter school. Suzanna was about to go into second grade and Haydn into kindergarten but we just couldn’t see where we were going to come up with the tuition. Even though we had help with Suzanna through Tops (which we were very thankful for), we could barely keep up with that and didn’t know how we were going to do it with two kids. Anyway, we chose a charter school based on their high academic quality and have been very pleased with their education. They are both doing so well.
Aria’s health is so much better. For the first couple years of her life she was always on one antibiotic after another. She was in the hospital four or five times for various reasons. This past year to year and a half she’s been able to go four to six weeks at a time without antibiotics instead of every two weeks. She does get some medicine at night but it’s preventative stuff to help her not get sick. She’s still susceptible to catching everyone’s cold but not as bad as before.
Haydn’s asthma sometimes kicks in when he’s running around too much but other than that, he’s doing great. Suzanna just got her first pair of glasses. It’s amazing how much a pair of glasses improves concentration and handwriting.
To sum everything up, we are doing great!! A year ago, we were just kind of coasting through life wondering what is God’s purpose for us. I always told Tina that God was going to use her abuse to minister to others. We never in our wildest dreams ever thought that God would use us this big. This is only the beginning. We are always asking God for His direction in our lives, that His Will be done, and that everything that happens brings glory to Him.
We never wanted Tina’s story to be public. We always thought that she’d be used in the local church ministering to other abused victims. When called by the police to confirm the report of her being raped, impregnated, put up for church discipline, shipped to Colorado, baby given up for adoption, and kept away from other kids her age, she cooperated. That is all. We still never saw the magnitude of all that has happened over the past year. We’re still in shock at all that has progressed. Everything is being orchestrated by God. We don’t know or understand His ultimate purpose in all of this.
Now that Tina’s story is out, we pray that it will encourage pastors, churches, schools, universities, and any other organization of believers to examine how they will deal with a situation of abuse when it happens to their children. Unfortunately, Tina’s story is not unique and it’s not the worst. There are too many children who are being raped and beaten by “Christian” parents, pastors, teachers, and church members. Now, here’s the question. Are you going to deal with sin or sweep it under the rug? If you, as a pastor, Christian leader, teacher, layman, or any adult tries to hide it, God will bring it to light. God will deal with you. I believe that is exactly what is happening. Christians, who say they believe the Bible, are not dealing with sin properly, and God is taking care of it.
As a family, we are happy. We are content. I personally am excited to see what God is going to do in the future. I know that God has a plan for me and my family. I’m excited about the possibilities of God using a horrible situation and turning it into a situation that He can use to His glory.
How is God working in your life? I know He’s working in mine.
I want to give Him all the glory and honor and praise His Name, forever and ever.
Sincerely,
Tim Anderson
[...] you should read this testimony from Laurie Moody a former member of the church that was highlighted on the 20/20 episode, and one who knows the [...]
Laurie – Thank you so much for providing this insightful behind-the-scenes look at this awful situation. I’m retired law-enforcement and in fact trained in deception detection, I knew that Tina was telling the absolute truth, as best as she remembered it, and loved having this type of witness to take to trial. I am so glad that Tina appears extremely well-adjusted after having suffered so much at the hands of her church and trusted “church staff” and even her own family members. God is faithful and has demonstrated that in the life of this precious lady.
And wow got busted for one wine cooler, those outward appearances so important, but committing and hiding “gross” sin, no problem.
Tks again for writing this. God Bless You.
[...] you should read this testimony from Laurie Moody a former member of the church that was highlighted on the 20/20 episode, and one who knows the [...]
[...] Laurie’s Observation: [...]
Laurie,
I noticed you mentioned James Colyn formerly of Glandale, AZ.
My wife and I were guests at a missions conference way back in December 1982 while Colyn pastored.
Apparently at that time he was having immoral relations with as many as five adult women in the church. Before his “ministry” there in AZ, he was in New Mexico and was guilty of sex offenses there also.
The IFB movement is filled with leaders who have NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
“I am not in a fundamentalist church today…” – Good choice, I don’t blame you… Every single IFB church in my area is in serious spiritual & moral trouble.